rush hour on Teton Pass

By Jim Stanford on January 19, 2008

Tags: , , , ,

life in the fast lane on Teton Pass — Jim Stanford photo

This is what hiking Mount Glory has come to: one boot-packed trail for the hardcore, and another for the slow afoot.

It used to be that the daily race over Teton Pass was the “Idaho 500″ – commuters in Subarus and monster pickups vrooming between the bedroom communities of Victor and Driggs and work in Jackson Hole.

This winter the traffic on Glory’s “Stairway to Heaven” has been astounding, particularly on powder weekends. It’s not unusual to find 25 skiers atop the summit. Last Saturday, at 2:30 p.m., people were still waiting in cars atop the pass for a parking spot.

Congestion on the bootpack recently led to at least one incident in which a hardcore type “turtled” a slow hiker apparently unwilling to move out of the way, tossing him off the trail into the deep snow. Afterward, skier Jason Tattersall, with help from Teton Pass ambassador Jay Pistono, broke the new route, which is staked with bamboo and ribbons to the west of the main trail.

I know what you’re thinking: Isn’t the rest of life enough of a rat race that people ought to take their time hiking a mountain and soak up the experience?

Yes, but if the point of going out there is getting a workout, I can see why alpinists want to push themselves and go as hard as possible up the 1,700-foot bear of a hike. A lot of folks I run into these days are on their second or third lap.

In that spirit, I tried the new “express” bootpack last Sunday. I walked about halfway up to help pack the trail, partly for amusement. Ironically, the trail was so soft and I spent so much time wallowing that I returned to the “slow” path and was able to climb much faster.

Not everyone is thrilled with the attempt at segregation. Here’s one response that circulated by e-mail this week:

hey, you, get off my cloud! (unattributed source)

I doubt that maintaining a second bootpack will be possible on all but the busiest weekend days. It’s hard enough to break one trail with wind blasting the peak.

A big storm is due this weekend that I’m told could bring as many as 20 inches to the Tetons by Sunday evening. We’ll see if the new Jackson Hole Air Force-sanctioned path holds up.

As with nearly all questions of backcountry etiquette, a little courtesy goes a long way, whether you’re fast or slow (or even a supporter of that phony Mitt Romney).

For cardio-warriors who live in town and don’t want to be energy hogs, the Snow King bootpack is in excellent condition. It’s on the far hiker’s right of the Exhibition slope, and at 1,571 vertical feet offers a moderately stiff workout.

Chances are you won’t have to turtle anyone.

While on the subject of Teton Pass, I should point out that 90 percent of the skiers and snowboarders up there are well prepared and considerate of others. Despite the increased use, people are doing a good job of coexisting. The pass does not belong to any of us; it belongs to all of us.

There’s no easy answer to the parking situation. Perhaps half of the spaces should be reserved for HOV, or high-occupancy vehicles? Sharing rides is part of the solution.

Parking at the ‘Coach and ending the day with a couple of Pica’s tacos and a beer isn’t a bad way to go. I enjoyed watching Brett Favre in the Blizzard Bowl there last week.

The limited parking has one noticeable benefit: keeping the snow from being tracked out too quickly.

Of course, when the snow tapers off, so, too, does the fever, and all this is moot.

I’d like to second the call by Rando Steve of Teton AT to give props to WyDOT, whose avalanche technicians and plow drivers have done an outstanding job of keeping the road open and parking area cleared, despite seven weeks of storms.

I’m happy to buy you guys a beer at the ‘Coach anytime!


Posted under Sports

58 Comments so far

  1. Jerkey Schmilkis January 19, 2008 10:25 am
  2. SkinSnobJH January 19, 2008 10:56 pm

    PTFOB, I’m turtling.

    Damn, if I turtled someone I’d have to toss them off the boot pack too, because my turtle, he don’t smell too good. Kinda curious how you turtle someone from below, though. It’s like you’d have to turn around and engage in some kind of serious projectile action. Yeah, would take a “hardcore type” to pull that off.

    That turtle is a persistent little bugger though, once he starts knocking he just won’t stop – I can imagine how a severe case of turtling could result in some impatience, some hurry to reach a release-friendly safe zone.

  3. dub January 20, 2008 12:33 am

    F$!ckin Passholes!

  4. JHSF January 20, 2008 4:31 pm

    Jackson Hole Snowplow Force
    “A Holla for Peace”

    We live to snowplow
    to get low in the snow
    bend it down to the ground in the v-stance
    til you rip your pants
    wave your poles in the air til ya can’t
    stop it, don’t drop it
    your poles, that is

    Holla if your pants are tight!
    shout it out if you’re skiin’ green circles right
    you’re a gangsta gaper
    skiin’ the groomers on flat ground
    rip past that 3 year old & don’t make a sound
    don’t alarm them, we’re not hear to harm them

    First chair on the Teewinot
    is what i got
    Holla cause it’s saturday now
    Time to snowplow!!
    Whoa! Whoa! Hey! Ho!
    JH Snowplow Force is tight
    We’re not here to fight
    but to give some love to my gangsta gapers
    is what it’s all about
    Peace out!

    (Chorus below to be sang by a Gospel choir)
    You know it’s like Baghdad
    out on the Teton Pass
    People gettin’ thrown
    fightin’ breaking out
    Why can’t we all get along
    Leave the testosterone at home
    homeys, cause ya know me
    Peace to all my slow sistas
    and my slow-ass trick-knee brothas
    Peace to the pow!
    The time is now
    To make the wrongs right
    Ski it, don’t fight, brothas!
    Peace out mothas!

  5. js January 20, 2008 9:00 pm

    Nice work.

    A bit of explanation is in order, after several inquiries. To “turtle” someone, I presume, is to knock them over and leave them floundering in the snow with their heavy pack and skis on their back, much like turning a turtle on its shell — it can’t turn itself back over.

    The “express” trail sign was gone Saturday, and there was no alternative bootpack, either, as the wind nearly obscured the main trail.

  6. Chris January 21, 2008 5:12 pm

    Jim, thanks for the coverage here. Couple of things probably should be aired in the essence of a truthful story.

    First of all, I was the guy who got “turtled,” which isn’t exactly how I would describe it. I was pushed out of the boot-back when someone so impatient and rude who didn’t have the courtesy to pipe up with a friendly “Comin’ through” felt it was more appropriate to grab the tail of my board (strapped to my pack) and push me out of the trail. But luckily I never left my feet. That’s right, not a word; just trucked up behind me, grabbed my board and pushed. So I object to the phrase “unwilling to move out of the way.” How can one be “unwilling” when the perpetrator never bothered to find out if I was willing or not?

    I also object to the term “slow.” If 45 minutes up Glory is slow, then what do you call the poor bastards who can’t make it up there in an hour. “Slow” is a relative term and obviously I was slower than one person on a particular day. But I passed pretty much everyone else on the trail that day…except him.

    When I turned around to see which one of my friends was giving me a hard time (for who would be dick enough to grab your tool if they weren’t a friend giving a good-natured jeer? And don’t even get me started about the inappropriateness of touching someone else or their equipment), I was verbally assaulted by the asshole who continued to spray so much vile hatred at me for not vacating “his” boot-pack. He was still spewing thirty feet up the trail, apparently speaking only to himself by that point.

    And by the way, the asshole in question is Jason Tattersol, so don’t go painting him as the good guy, helping Pistono blaze a new trail. I know Tattersol’s been threatened with the stripping of his Cloudveil sponsorship because of that and other similar incidents he’s perpetrated on Glory, so I can only guess he’s been instructed to do some good before he’s booted from the team entirely. Frankly, I’m not sure what the good folks at Cloudveil are waiting for.

    Well, this is all so much bullshit. If you’re so impatient and rude that you can’t be polite to people in the backcountry, then you shouldn’t be out there. I don’t care how long you’ve been hiking Glory or how fast you do it. If you don’t have the decency to treat others with civility, you better go where there isn’t anyone else. And obviously Glory isn’t the place. The reason I go into the backcountry is for peace and solitude. But if I run into other people while in search of some backcountry goodness, I expect they’re there for the same reasons as me. Regardless, fellow humans deserve to be treated with respect.

    But to be segregated into two different boot-packs? Well, that’s just asking for hostility. Honestly, Jay, I’m disappointed in that so-called solution and frankly would have expected better. Who’s going to police that? Do I continue to use the “slow” trail and pass 90% of the people on that one or run the risk of getting “turtled” from the fast lane because there are a handful of people hiking Glory faster than me?

    I’m not surprised to hear the second trail and the sign are gone. That’s just not sustainable. And I know a few members of the JHAF who are probably embarrassed to have their moniker on such an inflammatory sign.

    Pushing people out of the boot-pack. Fist-fights in the parking lot. Yelling at people in the skin track. Where does it end, people? There is no room for rudeness in the backcountry. Perhaps instead of avalanche courses, we should be offering lessons in basic manners. But who would have thought we’d really need to be taught something our mothers had worked so hard on? Frankly, aside from being so royally pissed off about the injustices I’ve personally suffered or witnessed on Teton Pass this year, I’m embarrassed to be associated with the kind of behavior that is becoming commonplace in one of the best backcountry areas in the world. And so should each and every one of the rest of you.

  7. Hodi-Dog January 21, 2008 9:48 pm

    I am a male dog and I have breasts.

    I th ink it’s wonderful that Jason is supporting a “Race for the Cure” on Teton Pass.

    Personally, I think we need little pink ribbons all over town.

  8. js January 21, 2008 11:44 pm

    Wow, sorry to hear that happened to you, Chris.

    I did not intend to “paint” Tattersall as the good guy. It was pretty widely circulated that he was the culprit, and I figured I’d let people read between the lines. I did not know for a fact that he shoved you and did not know the circumstances. But I did see him breaking the new “express” trail.

    I’ve known him to be mellow, so it’s disappointing to hear about this.

    There are many versions of this story circulating, including several I’ve heard in which a woman was tossed off the trail.

    Perhaps someone else was “turtled.”

    I think the reaction against this incident and the sign will go a long way toward ensuring that it doesn’t happen again.

  9. Chris January 22, 2008 8:57 am

    Jim, I assume any lack of clarity in your story was probably due to others’ desire to protect the innocent. I hadn’t heard about a woman, but I do know I’m not the only person who was verbally assaulted (don’t know about physically) on that particular day. I know most people up there are pretty mellow and most experiences I’ve had have been positive. It’s definitely the few who are ruining it for the many.

  10. rip1 January 22, 2008 12:16 pm

    Chris, I’ve called the wham-bulance for you…

    It takes you 45min to climb glory? If you can’t do it under 22min then you clearly need to be skiing on the south side. Props to JT and his crew for kicking you and others aside.

  11. the dude you didn't notice over there in the corner January 22, 2008 2:50 pm

    Yea, just like the big ol’ blk buck afro topped jivin’ struttin punk ass city boys that finally got to be a military cop used to come into the tae kwan do studio ready to kill some honkey. Every time yielded the same result. They walked in with glory but we got the last word and sent them home, unable to work the next day. Tat, that’s you, punk. Cloudveil is ignorant for associating w/ you trust funder, just moved here, prick recreationists. What ever happened to calm and peace, mixed with a little exhileration, in the backcountry? Ask all your local developers, including all you wannabe trustfunders banging nails. And if you think 90% of the folks down on the Pass are nice, hey, about 98% of the Afghanis and rag wearin’ Iraqis are super cool peace loving people, too – seriously. And they got little peaks you can boot up faster than an RPG if you want, but oh no, they got no film crew or film festival or cutsie named microbrew and a newspaper geek that too thinks he’s coolest of all. Rip1Fart, above, try getting out of your leapord skinned ballerina tights, put on a beacon and turn it on, carry a metal shovel, firestarter, extra clothing and food, and the rest of the ten essentials that you’ve never heard of, then try to be the biggest baddest girl shove’r on the hill. Shouldn’t you be skiing Gannett for world peace or global warming or something, anyway?

  12. js January 22, 2008 3:02 pm

    calm and peace, people.

    calm and peace.

  13. magee January 22, 2008 8:40 pm

    …Cloudveil needs to boot JT.

  14. W.W.J.D.F.A.D.N January 23, 2008 4:56 am

    Interesting view from the outside…Would also have to agree that Cloudveils embrace of the Trusties and wannabe trusties is comical, but thats not the point of this post.

    I don’t see anything fundamentally wrong with having two bootpacks going up Glory…there is a lot of traffic. However putting up a sign and associating your ‘cool ski club’ with gay skulls and cross bones stickers shows just how played out you and your ‘cool ski club’ friends really are….sad. Maybe its time to get a real job cuz your skiing ain’t gonna pay your bills much longer.

  15. Jerkey Schmilkis January 23, 2008 11:10 am

    Mr Doude,

    Your post makes absolutely no sense at all. Next time, stay away from the bong until you’ve had a chance to review your material.

    Has this article garnered the most posts on this blog? What a strange crew we are.

  16. js January 23, 2008 11:38 am

    Yep, Dick Cheney, Iraq War, Forest Service sell-out, none of them stirred much dialogue on these pages.

    But write about what matters most to people — skiing — and you strike a nerve.

  17. louie January 23, 2008 1:11 pm

    Tattersall is a pussy when was the last time tgr had anything good on him.
    You would never see Doug C being such a punk. I lived in Jackson for some time and ment Tattersall he was a prick then and looks like somethings never change. Ask the big bad ass pro skier why he left his girlfriend in Granite Canyon because she was so slow.
    On her own she got lost and took myself and two others to find her at 7:00 pm on the cross country trak cold, crying and scared! Someone should turtle Tattersall because he deserves it.

  18. Lars January 23, 2008 3:29 pm

    Just got off the bootpack, and all I could think of while going up was:

    “Don’t turtle me, bro!”

  19. js January 23, 2008 2:23 pm

    let’s refrain from bashing people personally, and stick to either the incident or issue at hand.

  20. Pastor Tom January 23, 2008 6:34 pm

    May we now hold hands and pray.

  21. Dear Mr. Ed January 23, 2008 7:03 pm

    Yo, js, isn’t “bashing people personally” both the “incident” and the “issue at hand” here? Explain to me the perpetually political peculiarity of pee and poop filled prima donna boot track perplexion, preferably without alliteration.
    And, yes, that was me (Mr. Ed, the talking horse), early season, all alone, talking to only me, the white horse, at the the top of Columbia Bowls. Thankfully, there was one old-school hairy legged tele chick to call for someone to help me.

  22. Hunt January 23, 2008 10:35 pm

    What I am reading in this blog here is such bullshit that I feel it is necessary to help clear things up a bit. First of all I can not believe what a big deal everyone is making out of all this and how blown out of proportion things can get. The new bootpack was put in by Tat and myself recently one morning, Jay Pistono did not help nor was he there. The bootpack was put in to help eleviate congestion and simply allow skiers another way to the top of Mt. Glory, not to segregate the “hardcore/cardio warriors” from the “normal people”. I personally am not a “cardio warrior” by any means and frequently use both bootpacks as of now. I like having the option of being able to mix things up. I stomped in the new bootpack again yesterday just for something to do because things are pretty skied, no need to hurry sometimes. Is it really harming anyone having two bootpacks up Mt. Glory?

    Now as for the turtling, I dont even know where to start. This is so blown out of proportion we have a new term in the ski industry. These crys for help of being turtled are quite comical, I was actually on the same bootpack with Tat when this all supposedly happened. What happened was when crybaby was on the bootpack he did not hear Tat. Tat actually said “hey brother let me go by”. Chris how did you not hear anyone stomping up the bootpack right behind you, did you have your headphones on or were you just not paying attention? When you didn’t hear Tat he did rattle your skis/give a good natured jeer. You moved off the bootpack and let him by if I am correct. What you forgot to tell the people here was that once he got by, you called him a dickhead. After you said that you got what you deserved. If it was such a big deal why did you not say anything to Tat when it happened? I guess it is easier to call someone an asshole over the net. You need to take responsibility for yourself and get out of the way. Quit making excuses, fast or slow. It is like that in any sport out there, faster traffic has the right away. Why should anyone hiking up the bootpack have to yell “let me by” in the first place? I am constantly aware of who is ahead of and behind me. Once I see that someone is coming up behind me I take note and let them pass when they get close. You certainly should not wait until someone is so close that they have to say move. Wake up! The only one who should be embarrassed is Chris for crying and making a big deal out of nothing.

    We should title this the rag on Tat even thought you dont really know him blog. I mean calling him and asshole, punk, puss, saying the cool ski club is gay/played out, etc. That is the shit that is really embarassing, sad, and played out. It shows your lack of intellect and makes you sound like a fifteen year old boy. You should all probably talk to Tat and personally tell him that he is an asshole, punk, pussy. Maybe get to know him, he is actuallly one of nicest, sharing and most respectful guys you will meet. The world would be a better place if there were more people like him.

    Finally, I personally have had only positive experiences on Teton Pass. I can only hope the you all feel the same way too. If you think that the Pass is crowded, go stand in line at the village for a couple of hours and get back to me.Lets enjoy Teton Pass for what it is there for…skiing, and quit making such a big deal out of this shit. Go ski.

  23. dub January 23, 2008 11:31 pm

    Further Tatersall comments can dial the toll free hotline: (H888) H888- H8888

  24. turtle one kanobi January 24, 2008 5:08 pm

    I thought a turtle was when you try to hold in a big crap because there’s no bathroom around and inevitably it comes out for a look around the hood? my bad that’s “turtle head a popp’in” Fuck all ya’ll, hate is the new love. king of the mountain! do things properly or get your assed kicked! west side, ride and die!

  25. W.W.J.D.F.A.D.N January 25, 2008 9:52 am

    I am going to forgo skiing today so I can stir the provebial pot.

    stir, stir, stir.

    Adding your ccol club sticker to that sign was the action that sealed the deal. No one is complaining if you wanna maintain a second bootpack, however the skullz and crossbones cool club sticker make it gay and detract credibility from the action….

    stir, stir, stir.

  26. granitecave January 28, 2008 7:58 am

    hey tat,
    last time i checked wasn’t JHAF motto swift silent and deep. you should work on the middle one and take the air force sticker off the sign. you chump. also, if your so good, why are you skiing the pass all the time and not the nasty lines out of the gates at the resort

  27. sickbirdbro January 28, 2008 9:21 am

    swift SILENT deep? nice job being silent. putting up a sign and wanding a pretty damn straightforward route seems ridiculous to me, as does this entire episode. you could always skin up glory if you’re looking for a different path. or maybe just go somewhere else, anywhere else on the pass and you’ll find way less traffic. lighten up-this is recreation!

  28. Big Chris January 28, 2008 9:45 am

    Yea what Hunt said!
    Oh yea! Unplug your f#@&in’ headphones and stop boot packing(POSTHOLING!) in the skintrack. I am a slow guy on the boot pack and have been caught by Jason and his crew many times over the years. He has always had horrible things to say like “Good Morning”, “Howdy” or worst of all “nice day,huh?” Get over it. Be curtious, get out of the way! Leave your I-Pod at the gym. Why should Cloudveil drop Jason? Because you can’t get out of bed before 10:00a.m.. You’re too lazy to park in the lower lot. Go back to Texas, Georgia, where the F ever you came from. I didn’t know TGR footage was the measure of a man.

  29. Bones January 28, 2008 10:32 am

    Wow. I leave town for a few days and all hell breaks loose. I guess the one thing you can always count on is the unexpected.

    It’s too bad things have come to this, and the situation so stupid that I find it hard to dignify with comment. In light of that here’s a tidbit of something positive that happened recently on the Pass:

    A friend and I recently completed a quick morning lap on Glory, only to return to the parking lot to find our cars plowed in by the WYDOT graders (this isn’t a WYDOT gripe, they were just doing their job). The row of snow was about two and a half feet high; my 4WD Ranger probably could’ve blasted through with a nice running start, but my friend’s 2WD Jetta was hopelessly walled in. So we bucked up and and assembled our avalanche shovels and began digging his escape before the grader could make another pass and reinforce the citadel of hard, packed snow. Much to my surprise, a group of four skiers who were ready to begin their hike set down their packs, took out their shovels and joined our plight. There was 10 inches of fresh snow waiting for them, but they put off powder fever to help some fellow skiers in need. The pass needs more of that attitude. What would’ve taken the two of us 15 minutes took six people about three.

    About the the 2nd bootpack topic, I will say only this: I don’t care how many bootpacks there are on Glory. If you want to make a third or fourth one, go for it. More power to ya. But no private citizen, JHAF member or otherwise, will tell me where I (or my dog, for that matter) can and can’t go on public land. Period. If you don’t like the crowds on Glory, deal with it or go someplace else. That area is for everyone to use, and while some don’t use it wisely or responsively, most people do. Being an asshole about passing someone on the bootpack is just as bad as not letting someone pass.

  30. BongoBuck January 28, 2008 4:20 pm
  31. Smart Growth January 29, 2008 11:36 am

    Recent Teton Pass discourse leads to surprising solution.

    The official announcement is forthcoming, but I did just hear, straight from the horses’ asses, that, indeed, in the near future we will have another option for roadside avi path skiing and hucking.

    Our local planners, in conjunction w/ adjacent neighboring planners, have agreed to lobby, $, for a new highway across the mighty Tetons. It will connect Avalanche Canyon to Teton Canyon, via Avalanche Divide and Hurricane Pass. Apparently bike paths are in the works, as well, but for now, budgetary concerns may possibly delay that particular aspect. However, multiple roadside pullouts will be coordinated for chain-up areas, brake inspection, and rad dude parking.

    Additionally, talks are planned to discuss the option of local biking afficionados being allowed to self-construct an elaborate downhill mountain biking mecca. Eventually, staff hopes to have food and beverage centers, along with optional overnight accomodations, as these profit centers will help offset the approximate $3.5 billion price tag, and may assist with maintenance of the new highway.

    A coordinative team of ambassadors will be sponsered to assist as hosts – one from Idaho and one from Wyoming. You need live here only one minute to apply!

    Though the public comment period has yet to be announced, preliminary construction has begun on the west side, under the guise of Targhee expansion/landswap options.

    Please, call, email, and write your elected and appointed officials to show your strong support of this mammoth, awe-inspiring, trendsetting project. We will finally have peace on Teton Pass, thanks to distribution of demand for our ever so famous powder paradise.

    And, remember, this is only phase 1!

    p.s. our marketing department is looking for a few excelling men and women to join our performance team; preference given if you’ve been filmed by notable locals, or if you are a freelance writer/photographer with extensive experience in the outdoor industrial venue.

  32. js January 30, 2008 12:52 pm

    next time, you get your own post!

  33. Smart Growth January 30, 2008 6:25 pm

    js, Thanks. I can name that tune in two (2) notes. Song, please.

  34. Colt45 January 31, 2008 9:14 am

    I am predicting Jack-ass-on Hole will be the first BC location in the continental US with a murder scene on the skin track.

    Understand that America is based on numerous freedoms. One of which is the right to carry a firearm with a concealed weapons permit…..even on National Forest lands. One day someone is gonna go postal because they got “turtled”, encountered some douchebag wanna-be-cool-bro-brah attitude, etc. and things are gonna get messy.

    So keep up the dumbshit on the Pass. This will be the new “shot(s) heard around the world.”

    The one and only,


  35. wade mckoy January 31, 2008 1:45 pm

    This has been a liar’s charade. A defamation. Backcountry etiquette trampled. One individual trashed.

    I stand beside Jason Tattersall and say to you all, I do the same thing he does, and I know dozens more long-time Jackson Hole skiers who practice the same ethics and deal with offenders in the same direct manner.

    The lie: He gives no warning when coming up the boot pack and he pushes people out of the way and curses them when passing.

    The truth: He rattles your skis and says, “Can I get by?” If you respond with insults, he insults you back. Some of us will tap your skis with our poles. Many of us might touch you physically in some way if you breach the ethics. It is you who start the aggression with your insults and with your lack of awareness. If you are polite, we are polite. If you are rude, if you breach the etiquette and are unaware of your surroundings and of other people on the boot pack, you are a problem to be dealt with. I’m usually the guy getting passed, but no one has to ask me to move. I’m usually aware and pick a place to pull over before they get to me. But if I get surprised, I say, “Sorry,” and step aside. That’s been the way we’ve done it for over 30 years. Why should we change a long-standing, workable system to suit a few of you who don’t want to listen and watch?

    The lie: He is in danger of losing his sponsorship.

    The truth: They called him into a meeting when hearing these lies. He explained his side. They said keep doing what you are doing, we support you. They know him well. The rest of you have created a fictitious monster. You are hateful people.

    The wrong: He (we) are rude and should go someplace else.

    The right: You are the rude ones. If you don’t follow the long-standing etiquette, you suffer the consequences. Maybe you should go someplace else. We are not leaving.

    The wrong: Two boot packs breed hostility.

    The right: It is a brilliant solution to a new problem. It wasn’t his idea but he was willing to do the work to make it happen. Others are lazy and don’t want to break trail, so they want to use his new route. Break your own trail. Use all five (or six) senses. If your tunes are too loud, the mountain lion will eat you. If someone surprises you from behind, simply step aside. Spewing insults will invite the same.

    The assumption: Some JHAFers are probably embarrassed by the sign.

    The truth: Probably not. Not me. Not those founding members that I’ve been talking to.

    The lie: Tatt is called “trust funder, just moved here, prick recreationists.” The writer begins his rant with a bunch of inner-city rap and a threat of marshal arts boxing. The writer does not give his name. Most of the haters do not give their real names. Why don’t all of you bashing on a real person use your real and full names?

    The truth: He has no trust fund, he holds down two real jobs, receives no money (zero $) from sponsors, has been here 20 years. And, on second thought, maybe you’d better stick to hiding behind a fictional or partial name.

    One more thing—it seems to me that the administrator of this spew-place has a very big problem. Free speech stops at falsely yelling “Fire!” in a public place, yet you publish what amounts to the same thing. The result: a good man is trashed and his haters and detractors temporarily win the day. We will outlast you, though, that’s a promise.

  36. Hispanic Skier January 31, 2008 10:12 pm

    Whatever Wade. Let’s hear it from Tattersall or whatever he calls himself.

  37. Hollis Brooks February 1, 2008 7:51 am

    Man, where to start?
    I no longer live in Jackson, at times I wish I still did. I lived there for 12 years and made some tremendous frienships. Jason Tattersall is a good friend of mine, so of course, this is a biased opinion. But know this, I would not have taken the time to write this, had some of these posts not infuriated me.

    Tat is not like most people. If he does not care for you, he has the fortitude to not shine you on to your face and pretend to like you. If he has a problem with you, he will not talk behind your back, he will tell you, right to your face. In my opinion, these types of people are not common, I am not one of them. I strive to be.

    In my many experiences with Jason, and there have been plenty,
    I have never seen him act out unprovoked. When he is wronged, he will act accordingly. 99% of the time, the people he gets into it with have it coming to them. The reason most of these self-entitled people act the way they do is because there are not more people like Tat, calling folks out for being selfish. The fact that these wusses act the way they do is because after years of everyone else allowing them to act like they are the only people in the world, they now feel entitled. Boo Hoo you got called out for what you are. Take a good look at yourself before wailing on other people.

    I was involved in the ski industry in some form or another my entire time living in Jackson. I hiked the pass, bootbacks in the village and skinned tracks in the park, though not nearly as much as most of you and others in the valley. As John and Wade have pointed out as well, you must be aware of your surroundings, other people included. I am not a cardio beast and would usually get passed more often than pass others. I had only one instance when soemone “snuck” up on me. I felt embarrased and instantly let him pass. We had a pleasant interchange and it was a done deal. To think that you have the right to slow people down is simply selfish. I have a feeling you are some of the same folks, cutting people off on the roads, driving well below the speed limit, all while talking on your phone.

    If your ego does not allow you to let people pass, that is your problem. Deal with it. Tat is one of the most generous, humble, friendly cats I know and I am damn sure this “Chris” did something uncalled for to provoke him. All you need to do is read his post to realize he must be a sniveling little baby. Everyone needs to be held accountable for their own actions and so far, on this topic, only Tat is being asked to do so. Grow up folks, just because you have been a pain in the ass your whole life, does not mean you are allowed to be.

    Finally, “Hispanic Skier”, way to call Tat out (by his real name), while you hide behind your computer name. Man, these “internet tough guys” are a dime a dozen.

    Have a great day and hello to anyone who cares.

    Hollis Brooks- my real name

  38. Hispanic Skier, the anonymous coward February 1, 2008 5:53 pm

    Dear Hollis Brooks (if that’s your REAL name),

    blah, blah, blah, blah.

  39. Hunt February 2, 2008 12:38 am

    Hollis and Wade have smart and intelligent things to say. The rest is all banter. Hollis I am not John Hunt, I am Hunt Bogardus. (young Hunt)

  40. Hollis Brooks February 2, 2008 6:10 am

    Sorry Rick, I was actually wondering that after I posted. I hope all is well.

  41. Bob Smith February 2, 2008 3:10 pm

    Looks like this is finally headed where it should – a very public awareness campaign, hopefully with eventual decent results.
    1. Be aware, leave the headphones at home, make your dog obey, be courteous to your peers, kindly and promptly move out of the way.
    2. Be courteous to your peers when passing them, don’t stir it up, be above those dullards. After all, you’ve been skiing the Pass since the Huidekopers, right? Use their standard.

  42. David February 6, 2008 11:35 am

    Dude, I stomped in the ultimate Tattertrail yesterday. Straight up. But facing backwards. So I could see if there were any braghs, passholes, trust funders, prick recreationists, wannabe trusties, big badass pro skiers, prima donnas, old-school hairy legged tele chicks, gays, chumps, dumbshits, dogs, cops or Hispanics trying to pass me.

    On my third lap I tried to pass myself and got auto-turtled. Dang!

    It all blew in right after I summitted. Too bad ya missed it. It was sick.

    David Arthur Gonzales
    Jackson Hole Hair Force

  43. David February 7, 2008 11:52 am

    I have several friends who used to live in the Jackson Hole area that i am still in contact with. One thing we all agree with is that for some reason Jackson Hole has the worst kinda people. So many ego inflated personalities and unpersonable people. It sucks the good vibes right out of such a great place. Ive lived in ski towns all over the west and nowhere else have i seen the same. It seems like everyones got something to prove. I know this doesn’t apply to everyone but, tell me….why are there so many pricks in Jackson Hole??

  44. js February 7, 2008 1:04 pm

    There is a fair bit of pretentiousness. But outside Teton Village in winter, the attitude isn’t so bad.

    I think that’s why people reacted so sharply to this incident in the backcountry.

    It’s pretty easy to make a generalization from the outside, but as I’m sure is the case wherever you live, the community is a lot more complex.

  45. Blake February 8, 2008 10:38 am

    Hollis stands up well for a-holes. After reading that post I want to say that unprovoked assholery is a-ok, especially considering the guy MUST have done something to provoke it, since 99% of the time…blah blah. He finally puts a jab in at the dude who was chunked, whose letter didn’t make him sound like a sniverling little baby. Helluva pacifist to not chase down this fucko, but not a baby.

    David, the problem with JHlers is that they have no sense of reality or perspective. If you are sponsored and have hiked the pass for ten years, which beats work or contributing to society in any way I suppose, maybe you should chill. Really, everyone in the valley should consider that you aren’t cool just b/c you live in JH. These pricks certainly aren’t. Weren’t cool before you transplanted, probably aren’t cool now even though your fantasy world happens to surround you with similar … people who stress out the scene as much as you do?

  46. Hollis Brooks February 8, 2008 5:00 pm

    Blake, at least you seem to be well versed in talking about things you have no clue about. Good on ya!

  47. Hollis Brooks February 8, 2008 5:20 pm

    On second thought, Blake, I take that back. I am not here to get in a pissing match with everyone who does not agree with me. I stated my two cents because, when I started reading this, there were a ton of people bashing on a friend of mine and I found it lame. I stand by my original post.

  48. Doug Workman February 10, 2008 5:22 pm

    I am not a snotty Jackson Holer–look at me, I am on teles in the backcountry!

  49. wade mckoy February 12, 2008 4:39 pm

    Bravo to David “JH Hair Force” Gonzales!!!

    His hilarious romp on all of us and all of this places the perfect period on this episode of “As the Hole Turns.”

  50. Caveman February 13, 2008 8:48 pm

    Way to go Hollis, Hunt and Mckoy. I too have moved away from Jackson awhile back when there was only 1 boot pack on the north side of TP. The rules were the same back then and they are in just about every ski town I’ve been too/lived in. Currently in Tahoe its the same rule. Be courteous and move out of the way of faster traffic. I hope you all can work this out because the way I remember it … the Vibe on Teton Pass was the best and was why I began to love backcountry skiing so much.

    My memories of Tat are just as you said Hollis so I think Hispanic Boy should head back down south.

    I do like the 2 boot packs though… one for dogs and slower groups and one for fast and light.

    cheers. Hollis … what up bro? I may be heading to hook with Hank in Cabo at the end of FEB. you should come too.

    later… Rob A.

  51. Hollis Brooks February 16, 2008 7:25 am

    Yeah Cave-
    Good to hear from ya bud. Email me your number at and I’ll give ya a buzz.

  52. benjamin west wilson February 18, 2008 6:17 pm

    Hello,it’s so quiet at the village without all you there , the runs dont mogul as quickly and all the freaks headin’ south leave room to ski the trees. thanks .I know that that will allsoon end when the trams back in place. Please get over yourselves. Do any of you skiing the pass know that tele bowl and shivers ridge were once serviced by a rope tow, that teton pass was considered for a tunnel to connect wilson with victor or that teton pass could have become sun valley? If you answered no to any of these questions then you need schoolin’.he tunnel would have eliminated all the angst thats brewin up there. so be greatfull for what we have . Respect your elders (pat, siobahn, kelly, and shane) have you heard the phrase follow in their footsteps? please? thank you?. are you running away from something and you don’t want anyone to know your name. man up dog and come out from behind that computer name ( its so booring)
    i too am tired of being slandered by annomous bloggers i’m writing this mostly because im sick of anonymous bloggers hiding in closets, take your skirt’s off. If your going to slander someone at least have the gumption to put your name and reputation on the bottom line

    benjamin west wilson JHAF

  53. tienshanman February 20, 2008 4:34 am

    I don’t live anywhere near Teton Pass; in fact I live on the other side of the planet in Kazakhstan, just a few minutes outside of Almaty in a valley in the Tien Shan Mountains. I’ve worked here for 13 years; I used to live in WA state and then in the Bavarian Alps. I came across this thread while scouring some back issues of Offpiste mag for ski reviews (the powder out of my back door is light, almost too light, and I decided I need more surface area for touring). Whatever, back to the thread. I must say that I’m amused and taken aback by this very lively and emotional pissing contest. It hints at and reinforces what I have often noticed, which is that a lot of American “extreme sport” adherents have a holier than thou attitude that I have simply not encountered in other places. I’m not sure why this is but it’s sure there my friends. Very strange but very real. This attitude often manifests itself as an slightly veiled contempt for the uninitiated and a condescending attitude toward those who don’t play as well as the anointed ones. The drivers of this phenomenon are usually the self proclaimed “serious” rock climbers, or skiers, or hang glider pilots, etc (How people can get so “serious” about play has always amused me to no end). I have also observed that these are often the same people who moved to some place like Aspen, or Jackson or Mazama and then bitch about how their new home has been spoiled by everyone that moved in after them. Hilarious. Their entire identities are wrapped up with and inseparable from whatever game they play. About the etiquette at Teton Pass, I can easily understand why someone might not be inclined to yield if some self proclaimed superman sneaked up behind him and “tapped” or “rattled” his board/skis. Where I live: you do this to a Kazak or a Russian and your might very well end up with a dagger in your throat – your tapping days will be over forever dude, end of story. So people are polite here. But then again almost no one skis the backcountry here; in fact in 13 years of ski touring here in a seemingly endless range of 14,000’ peaks my buddies and I have never encountered other skiers. Hikers sometimes, on a few routes, but that’s it. Your thread also points out something else that I’ve noticed about the US – it’s becoming way too crowded. So maybe I won’t be coming home anytime soon and when I do return to North America I think I’ll head to Canada, which only has 30 million people instead of 300 million, and a lot fewer silly rules! Now bye, I have to go have a beer with Borat. We need to plan this weekend’s ski tour. Good luck working out your traffic rules.

  54. benjamin west wilson February 20, 2008 9:59 am

    Ok so the air force is GAY. When all you gay bashing homophobes learn to live together then the world will be as one. As I told my friend Will when he asked me what he had to do to get a patch , I replied that he was lucky ,that all he had to sleep with one of the members and luckily for him there were a few girl’s inducted this year. so light up and leave me alone.
    benny wilson jhaf co founder

  55. Jeff Patterson February 20, 2008 3:00 pm

    Actually, it appears this year that the Jackson Hole Airforce is gay. And by gay I mean that you all are out there knocking people over with your holier than thou attitude and mocking the mountains by skiing without avalanche gear. Way to go team GAY.

    Sounds like the airforce started off as a a group of gay dudes that had something to prove. Evidently nothing has changed over the years. JHAF, TGR, every bro bra athlete out there- we get it. You are lacking a few brain cells and that enables you to put yourself and everyone around you at risk on a regular basis. Congrats.

  56. Ed Min March 19, 2008 12:37 am

    Just stumbled across this discussion. It’s amazing how somethings never change. Tat is one of the best people I have ever known. Those who don’t know him may be intimidated by him, but if you talk to him you just might learn something from him, about him and about yourself.

    Hey Hollis — how’s beantown treating you?

  57. casey December 3, 2008 5:36 pm

    you guys are pathetic. You are blessed with some of the best skiing in the world and all you can do is bicker about who’s the coolest/fastest hiker/nicest skier/longest resident of JH/biggest dick ect…I would give my left nut to have daily access to that terrain and when I go to Jackson it is a true celebration (live in Colorado and ski crowded hard pack but still have fun). As for our backcountry I regularly venture out, often to loveland pass (a joke compared to teton), where as many as a hundered people can gather most powder days. The only violence I have ever seen was a buddy of mine told a guy to fuck off cause he got bit by a dog. Even then no one got “turtled”. This is proof that your backcountry is not too crowded, rather you guys are just pathetic

  58. Benny February 6, 2012 5:11 pm

    Haha wow you guys are still living in the past!

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